I hate to hijack the blog (chorus: no you don't!), but if Julie is willing, we could do a mini-Q&A on PBs... anyone have any qs about PBs, writing, querying, etc? Might be useful since Janet doesn't rep PBs and would probably defer qs on PBs to experts... like Julie! :)

Hey, I'd be happy to, Colin! Ask me anything!

Thanks, Julie! OK, I'll get the ball rolling. Did you choose your illustrator, or were you paired up by the publisher? How does that work?

Julie, I recently read that PBs featuring anthropomorphic animals are becoming a hard sell. The trend is moving toward realistic animal stories/animals behaving naturally. Snappsy might disagree with this trend, but as you're immersed in the PB industry, would love your thoughts.

Hi Colin! That's a great question, and a common misconception. The author almost never has any say in the illustrator. The publisher often asks for suggestions, but I'm not sure how often the illustrator the author suggests is the one who gets picked. The reason for this is that the art director at a publisher knows way more than any author about what illustrations will work best with the book, and also knows about up-and-coming illustrators who the author has never heard of (which is what happened with me -- it was Tim and my first book).

Often, the author and illustrator are not even allowed to communicate, lest an overly bossy author try to dictate the illustrations. I was lucky in that Viking let me and Tim talk (and now we're pals).

My question for Julie: What, in your opinion, is the most challenging aspect of writing a PB?

Hmmm, Melanie, I haven't heard that at all! ALL of my books feature anthropomorphic animals. I've never had anyone come back and say, "You know, if only this were the real story of a badger" or "can you make this elephant a girl?"

As always, if it's well written, and the main characters are exactly who they should be for the book, it shouldn't make any difference.

Thank you, Karen!

The most challenging aspect of writing a picture book, for me, is distilling an idea down to its essence without bonking the essence over people's heads. I might have a fun-sounding idea (say, "a squirrel who owns a shoe shop"), but then I have to ask myself "why" and "who cares" until I figure out what the heart of the story is. And then I have to write it doesn't seem like a message book, just like a fun story.

Usually I write the whole thing first, revise it a few times, and then ask "who cares?"
Also p.s. I have to take my dog to the vet, but keep asking, and I'll answer when I get back! This is fun!

Julie, Trying to find the source where I read about talking animals taking a downturn - glad to hear you feel it's bunk. I wrote a PB story about a lonely horse whose only friends are a sweet and kind dandelion and a crabby fence post; that article was so discouraging I never queried it.

Love the "about" page on your website. And hope all is well with your pup. I'm off to write a query letter for Sugar and The Dandelion.

The vet visit was totally routine! Just a check-up. And more opportunities for belly rubs for my dogs. She's always angling for belly rubs from new humans.

Melanie, the more I think about it, it almost seems talking animals are taking an upswing, not a downturn. But really my advice is always to write your story, the story in your heart, and don't worry about what is trending or potentially not selling. Publishers, in my experience, are looking for authenticity and voice. If you write the story in your heart, you're most of the way there.

Melanie: I had read something similar about talking animals. I'm glad Snappsy says otherwise. Hope all goes well with Sugar and the Dandelion. How wonderful that you in particular have written a PB about a horse! I wanna read it.

Just chiming in on the anthropomorphic question. The two picture books I have coming soon are about a bear who talks and plays the drums in a rock and roll band. Small, but traditional, publisher.

Snappsy totally says otherwise. Snappsy (and Julie!) say please keep writing talking animal books.

I mean: do you like to read talking animal books? Then you should also write them!

Sherry: I am ALL ABOUT a rock and roll bear. That sounds great!

I have two questions I would love to hear from Julie Falatko and Sherry Howard on.

1. Did you find an agent by querying picture books specifically? Did you send more than one in a single query?

2. Do you write and submit your stories in the standard 24 pages of text? Do you write the story and worry about breaking it down later, or do you take the division of the pages into account as you write it, or do you ignore the 32 pages with 24 of them being text guideline altogether? It's hard to tell from the outside how important that "rule" is, and how to handle it when submitting.

Hi! Just caught up on the thread. (perfect midday escape from tasks) I saw your comment re: author doesn't pick illustrator and I heard an accompanying "sad trombone." I did it backwards. Wrote it (complete with anthropomorphic animals) and it's been illustrated. I'm terrified to pitch, now.

Don't know where to start; don't want to waste the illustrator or agent's time.

Help!

Hi Julie! YES, doesn't everyone read this blog? : )

I love Snappsy!! When I go to the bookstore I always make sure he's facing out, ready to leap into customers' hands.

I appreciate your thoughts about "Why?" and "Who Cares?" I'll use those ideas to evaluate my next PB idea.

Best wishes with Snappsy #2!

Hi Gypmar!
I did find an agent by querying picture books specifically. I do write longer books, but knew when I was querying that I was going to mostly focus on picture books, so it was important to me to find an agent who knew a lot about picture books and the picture book industry. For the most part, I only sent one book, because that's what is usually requested in the query guidelines. There was one agent I queried who said "send us up to three picture books" and so, in that case, I did.

Which brings me to my next point: while you should generally only query one picture book, you should have at least two more completed, submittable picture book manuscripts ready and waiting. Send your best, or the one that matches the agent's taste most closely, but most agents will, if they respond positively, say, "Do you have any more manuscripts?" They want to see that you are looking at making picture books for the long haul, and that you have more than one idea, and that your small lineup of manuscripts are not just rehashing the same story.

I send in my stories formatted into paragraphs. So a 32-page manuscript will end up being about 4-5 pages of text. You can certainly break it into pages for yourself, or even make yourself a dummy to see how those page turns work, but submit it as straight text.

I have seen some sources say that you should break those paragraphs into pages, like this:

(page 7) (because often the first page is 7, or sometimes 5 if the copyright and such is at the end of the book)
Mister Yogurtface was not looking forward to the day.

(pages 8-9)
He was supposed to have breakfast with Old Lady Crumpet, and he knew it was going to be an unmitigated disaster.

But I've never submitted anything like that. I HAVE gotten manuscripts back from editors like that, as the editor starts to think about layout, but no one has ever requested that I put in the page breaks.

HI SARAH FLOYD! How are you? Besides being the best ever for putting Snappsy face out???

Hi Jennie H!
First of all, let me assure you that you are not the only one who has made this mistake. A lot of people write something and then get it illustrated.

However! It really isn't how it's done, and you run the risk of looking like you haven't done your research if you submit it like this. What you CAN do, though, is submit the manuscript and mention that you can, if requested, supply sample illustrations from [illustrator's name], which will work especially well if the illustrator has a great website with an online portfolio. There's no guarantee the agent will accept both of you (does your illustrator have an agent as well? if not, consider it from the agent's point of view: he or she has to sign you AND the illustrator to make submitting the story to editors really make business sense).

THAT SAID: occasionally agents will submit stories to publishers with illustrations attached as samples. Think about pairings like Mac Barnett and Jon Klassen. When their agent (and they do have the same agent, Steven Malk) submitted Sam and Dave Dig a Hole, it was absolutely a package deal. Also, my agent (the amazing Danielle Smith) has found (again, occasionally) that a picture book sells better with sample illustrations attached. It really can (occasionally!) help to sell the story, and get people picturing it as a book.

Ooof, this is maybe a long-winded way of me trying not to let you down, but I honestly don't think you should submit your story to agents with the illustrations attached. I think, if you get agent interest, you can say, "I realize this is not the way it's normally done, but I did have [illustrator name] do illustrations for this book before I knew that wasn't the standard procedure, and s/he really knocked it out of the park. I know there's no guarantee of using those illustrations, but I wonder if you'd like to take a look at them?"

Julie, thank you so much! That is incredibly helpful. Looking forward to making Snappsy's acquaintance!

Thanks, Julie. I appreciate the thorough response. I'll heed your advice and submit the story separate but I *must* include a few sample illustrations, like you said.

Helps to hear I'm not the only one who's done it backwards.

I (clearly) didn't understand the agent/writer/illustrator relationship part of the process.

Unrelated? I just read the commenting rules and snarfled re: Spelling/grammar mistakes may be pointed out ONLY in the blog post itself, not in any of the ensuing commenter's contributions. HAHAHAHAHA.

Nicely played. JH

Jennie, are you clear on the agent/author/illustrator relationship now? If not, I'm happy to keep blabbing about it.

[PSA]
Please keep going with your Qs for Julie as long as everyone understands this only runs for as long as Julie is able to keep checking back today. Apparently, not everyone lives their life on Janet's blog. Who knew? :)

I will make this comment thread a separate gem for the Treasure Chest, so be sure to get your best questions in!

And thanks again, Julie. This is AWESOME! So very helpful.
[/PSA]

Thanks, Colin! And really everyone, please ask me anything. There is this weird period of time where you know enough to know what you're doing, but you also have trouble finding answers to some of your questions. (Gypmar's question about how to format picture book submissions is a good example.) I wish I'd had a forum to ask my questions!

(Oh, and I guess we should also thank Janet for unwittingly hosting this impromptu event. I have my thermal underwear packed and ready for when she finds out...)

I think this is the coolest day ever on this blog, and there have been some good ones.

I am over the moon that Julie spent time here helping us all understand pbs.

I'm a devoted pb fan, and hoovered in the info like I was Snappsy at the All Night Dinner Dance Buffet.

*waits for the... "but I'm still sending Colin to Carkoon because... well, it's fun!"*

Keep up with the PB questions, folks! :)

Here's one:

Julie, given the limited word count for PBs (no more than about 700 words?), how on earth do you write a query for that? You mentioned how hard it is to distill a story down to its essence, I can only imagine it being even harder to then sum that up for a query blurb without giving away the whole story. Do you just say "My PB is called MISTER YOGURTFACE AND THE GELATO QUEEN (see complete text below)" or do you write a 250 word blurb too?

JANET, you are the best!

And you'll be happy to know there's EVEN MORE FOOD in the second Snappsy book, so more of a buffet, even.

*waves at Sarah and other PB writers*

Thanks, Julie, for answering questions about PBs! I follow you on Twitter and your books look like fun.

I'd also like to put in a plug for the SCBWI/Verla Kay Blueboards forum, where you can get answers to anything about writing and illustrating for children. You don't have to be a member of SCBWI to comment or ask questions, but you have to register.

-- Barb, a former moderator

Hi Colin,
You should ABSOLUTELY write a query blurb for a picture book. And, in my opinion, you should get in the habit of writing a number of different pitches for everything you write. It can help you figure out if there are any problems with your story, and you'll be ready when it comes time to query or do a Twitter pitch contest. I feel so passionate about this, I actually made a WHOLE VIDEO about why I think it's so important to write pitches: https://youtu.be/kRjqiW5fLok

In my query to Danielle for Snappsy, I did it like so:

Snappsy the alligator was having an ordinary day. Or so he thought. The narrator seemed to think he was having an identity crisis. No, Snappsy was not looking for innocent forest creatures to devour, and he was not obsessed with food that starts with the letter P. He was just a regular alligator, planning a party. And he wasn't going to invite the narrator. So there.

SNAPPSY THE ALLIGATOR (DID NOT ASK TO BE IN THIS BOOK), a 716-word picture book for 4-8 year olds, is STRANGER THAN FICTION meets CHLOE AND THE LION.

In from afternoon chores (horses, ya know) for some hydration and a snack. And another read-through of the comments.

Some "thanks" are in order: Janet, for allowing this Q&A. Colin, for thinking of it. And Julie for participating. So fun! An additional thanks to Julie: I'll be purchasing copies of Snappsy. 'Cause authors need to sell books.

Julie, Speak to us of querying PBs. Beyond doing our research on agents who rep PBs, following their guidelines and so on... how is writing the actual query for PBs different than other mss?

Melanie, I think writing the query is exactly the same as other mss. You just plug in picture-book-specific info. So your comp titles will probably be picture books (though, if you see mine above, I used a movie as one of my comp titles). Your pitch/synopsis will probably be shorter than one for a novel. And your word count will be much lower. But other than that, I think it's the same.

Oh wow! I love that query. Will you write mine? I'm writing an adult detective novel, but still... ;) Seriously, though, thanks for sharing SNAPPSY's query. That's really helpful.

Here's Julie's link: https://youtu.be/kRjqiW5fLok

Oh, and while you're thinking of questions for Julie, check out her other videos. These are particularly awesome:

The Truth about the Writing Process
The Case Cover for Snappsy the Alligator and His Best Friend Forever (Probably)--Possibly one of the best book teasers EVER! :)

Oh sure, Colin, I'll write your query:

Guy Darkly is a sheep on a mission...a mission to find out who's pulling the wool over his---

DARNIT I CAN ONLY WRITE PICTURE BOOK QUERIES.

Thank you for linking to and watching my videos!!!

Would someone please push Australia and America closer together so I stop missing all the fun?

Julie F. your query for Snappsy totally rocks. My kids are well past pb books, but I still have 3 large packing boxes of pb's in the house (much to The Hub's frustration) because I can't part with them. And my favourites are nearly all anthropomorphic animal books. I wonder if anyone has asked the kids if they are tired of these books?

AJ: When your youngest is 13, you really have run out of excuses for buying picture books. You have to simply admit "OK, I got it for ME! Happy now??!" Which is what I'll be doing when I place my order for SNAPPSY THE ALLIGATOR DID NOT ASK TO BE IN THIS BOOK. Or I could call it research... isn't that what we do? :)

Hmmm. Colin, you are so right! I should still buy picture books because maybe I will write one, and as they say, read widely in the genre. *wink*

Pandas are leaping into the conversation late, as per usual! I will be in HUGE trouble if anthropomorphic animals ever go out of style!
Heh!
Thanks for all this great information Julie and WELCOME from a big fan of anthropomorphic animals! Can't wait to meet Snappsy!

From my (small) experience, illustrators are usually expected to figure out the page breaks. The PB authors supply the text and the illustrator figures out how it's going to look and what the illustrations will be. The general rule in PB's is that text tells one part of the story and the illustrations tell the rest. So the idea is not to illustrate exactly what the author has written, but to expand on it. Personally, I think this is much easier when you are doing both writing and illustrating.

While what Julie says about authors not getting to pick (or even have any say) in who illustrates, I know there are a few exceptions. I think Candlewick will sometimes narrow it down to a handful of illustrators they think would be a good match for the text, and let the author weigh in. Also people who are both authors as well as illustrators seem to be in demand right now.

I'm in an interesting situation in that a writer friend wrote a non-fiction picture book (about pandas!) with a lot of input from me, with the idea I would illustrate it. Fast forward a couple years, and now we are represented by the same literary agency and our repsective agents have decided they think they can sell it, so we said yay! (Rather than indie pub) I'll let you know what happens.

Anyway, great discussion today! Keep those anthropomorphic animal stories coming. I want to read the one about the bear in the rock band too.

And we should definitely send Colin for a refresher course on Carkoon.

And I buy a lot of PBs. Can I plug a new favorite? The Book of Mistakes by Corinna Luyken. An idea, Beautifully illustrated.
I don't need an excuse to buy PBs. I consider them art books.

Julie F - thanks for all the info you've shared about PB writing. It's wonderful to hear from someone on the other side of the publishing line! Just wondering how many agents you queried before getting a hit? Or did you end up getting an agent some other way?
Cheers.

Hi Julie, I love Snappsy!

Ok guys, so I just read all these comments and thought I might out a couple of pennies worth of info out there. A few years ago I accidentally snagged a niche publisher for my picture book. It happened serendipitously, no time for an agent, they wanted the book out for Orville and Wilbur Wright's flight anniversary. The publisher basically has lucrative market on all books that teach, inform and instruct pilots of every kind.

I'm an author and illustrator of picture books. When you are PB Chimeric you not only have to write the book but illustrate it too...and be good at both. That also means you have to work twice as hard. And suffer twice the disappointment when they orphan your book. They decided that they couldn't take a chance "...at this time" and pulled it just before it went to catalog. Sigh.

Oh, I got to keep my advance and gave back all the legally stuff but the book never got published. I have yet to work up the courage to seek an agent. I've always had the Girl Scout cookie approach to 'selling' my work: "You don't want to buy my cookies do you mister?"

I have 3 books written and partially illustrated and about 20 ideas for more but I'm the cowardly lion pulling her own tail.

Colin: With many PB agents who request the author/illustrator combo, they want a query and the full text plus 5 or 6 examples of your art and tentative page layout. Good thing is you don't split the royalties, bad thing is it's a basket load of revision, both written and visual.

Yes to what Barb said about the SCBWI Blueboards! They are an incredible resource and how I found my first critique group.

AJ and Colin: as far as I'm concerned, there's no need to stop reading picture books, EVER. My kids are 7, 9, 11, and 14, so definitely some that are firmly still in picture book category, and some that aren't. But I love seeing the different take my olders and youngers will have on a book. Plus I know some middle school teachers who use picture books as mentor texts for writing, since they are so accessible.

Hi Panda! Yes, you're right, the illustrator (and, to a certain extent, art director and editor) dictate the page breaks, but I think it's important for the author to keep them in mind, since they are such a fun way to play with tension and storytelling. And yes too on the illustrator telling part of the story. I love what Mo Willems says about how the text should not make sense without the illustrations, and vice versa.

Author/illustrators have special advantages, and special abilities. I do not think visually at all, and am in complete awe of illustrators' abilities to tell a story through pictures. People often ask me if Snappsy looks like what I thought he would, and my honest answer is that I didn't picture him looking any way. Who the narrator is in Snappsy is a surprise in the book, and was a surprise to me. I left that up to Tim to figure out, and it was a big moment the first time I saw first sketches and got to figure out who my narrator was.

I will say also that every publisher goes about the illustrator process differently. Some editors keep the author informed about who they are considering, and whether people are interested or not, and some don't. Some choose the illustrator after the text has been through all of its edits, and some choose the illustrator right after the text is acquired.

And YES on The Book of Mistakes by Corinna Luyken. That book is AMAZING. I love it so much.

MA Hudson: I queried what I think is a shockingly low number of agents: 11. I spent about two years writing picture book manuscripts at a frenzied pace, trying to bump up my craft. And then another year honing the best stories. But that year-of-honing was also to get to that place of having submittable manuscripts, and also delaying what I knew would be inevitable rejections. I would see people getting rejected and would be jealous of them, because I wanted to be ready to submit, let alone get rejected. So when it finally came time to submit, I did a ton of research. I wanted to make sure I was submitting to an agent who loved picture books. Also, my stories are kind of weird. So I needed an agent who not only liked picture books, but liked weird ones.

Kate: thank you! And yes, as the author/illustrator you have more work to do, but yes also more royalties and more control over the finished book. KEEP WRITING! You're so close! And what an incredibly frustrating story about the publisher pulling your book.